Words: Callie Petch
It’s all beginning to happen for ZAND. Much like they reject gender binaries, the singer, songwriter, and producer has been building up a following in the British underground by rejecting any and all rigid definitions of genre. Their self-described “ugly pop” can start off with an industrial throb, transition into a hip-hop-inflected hyperpop verse, crest into a dramatic chorus heavily indebted to musical theatre, then suddenly dive into a metalcore breakdown designed to set pits the fuck off, all within the space of three minutes. It’s proudly extra, playful, and very fun, yet not without an enticing darkness and honest expression of past pain and trauma, as on revenge-fantasies “I Spit on Your Grave” and “Religion.”
Frankly, if ZAND’s music wasn’t being embraced by today’s Internet-savvy, openly queer, alternative crowd, then something must’ve gone horribly wrong. Fortunately, we don’t have to entertain that notion, even if the sheer momentum of ZAND’s last twelve months has taken them a bit by surprise. Major support slots for similar genre-fucky trailblazer Peaches, main stage appearances at the prestigious Slam Dunk festival, front cover shoots for Kerrang! anointing them as the face of the new alternative wave. And all before the release of their second EP, SEWERSTAR. A few hours after their storming set on the Festival Republic stage of Leeds Fest, we caught up with them to chat about the new EP, the secret to a good scream, the majesty of Ethel Cain, and that Jeremy Corbyn photo.
The following interview has been edited for length and clarity.
How’s your first time at Reading & Leeds been?
It’s been ca-ray-zee! After having wanted to play here for so long, it’s surreal. I’ve seen a good mix of old fans and new people. I saw one guy do some of the hand gestures that I use for “Slut Money;” he already knew the game.
Let’s talk a bit about the new EP, SEWERSTAR. How would you say your approach to writing has changed since the UGLYPOP EP a few years ago?
As I’ve grown up, I’d say I’m less anal about stuff now. I’ve learned to let go when it comes to melodies and lyrics and zoning into one tiny little details that most people don’t actually know. Just letting go and not being so bothered about cohesivity. Learning to think “eh, what works, works.” That’s been a fun process.
Your songs tend to start in one place and end in a completely different one, like there’s suddenly a big metalcore scream breakdown after a cool hyperpop hip-hop verse.
Yeah, hella breakdowns. It’s really fun to do stuff like that, the idea of there being lots of stuff going on at all times and being unpredictable. Even though there’ll be some people who go *adopts snooty voice* “ANOTHER breakdown in a ZAND song? What a surprise(!)” But it’s just my approach to genres and fucking genres altogether.
Also the theatricality to the music. I get a lot of musical theatre in the drama.
VERY inspired by that, especially my new song “Deliverance.” I’ve spoken about the cartoon character voices I do and personality on that song. Very inspired by emo and nu-metal bands I loved as a teenager: My Chemical Romance, System of a Down, The Used. And dark cabaret bands like The Dresden Dolls, Amanda Palmer. Even stuff like Danny Elfman’s Nightmare Before Christmas soundtrack. It’s fun to touch on all these things that have influenced me and bring that out.
It’s also been interesting to see bands from those scenes, who at the time got a real kicking from mainstream music press, finally getting their due. And that coinciding with them turning out to be a major influence on queer, POC, and female artists.
When I think about a lot of the bands I used to listen to, a lot of them were fronted by men. So, it’s nice for there to be a change with a lot of trans, queer, and non-binary artists fronting the scene.
You were recently on the front cover of Kerrang!.
I grew up reading Kerrang!, every single week when it was a weekly issue. Being obsessed with Pandora, reading about all my favourite bands (Paramore, My Chemical Romance), and finding new bands! It’s been fucking insane to get recognised by the front cover of one of the most famous alternative music outlets.
I know this is cliché to ask, but does that add any kind of pressure to you? Or is it all sliding off you cos you know who you are?
Feel like it’s a mix of both. I’m both winging it, don’t know what the fuck I’m doing, and also kinda do understand myself. As time progresses, I have bouts of “yeah, I’m doing ok.” But a lot of people have been coming up to me saying “Oh, you look to have it all together!” and I don’t!
That seems to feed into the SEWERSTAR ethos of being less anal about stuff.
It feels like a very Me body of work. UGLYPOP felt more like a taster of what I can do, but this is a full body of work and I’m really excited to get into the album.
Like UGLYPOP was the demo reel and this is the-
Shit Getting Real point.
Since you mentioned it, is the album something that’s been on your mind?
Yeah. I’ve been thinking about albums for years. “What do I want my first album to sound like? I’ll do it this year, I’ll do it THIS year!” But I don’t think a debut album is one of those things that should be rushed. I would be counted as an “upcoming artist,” but I’ve been doing this shit for 10+ years, so to me if feels like shit’s finally happening. So, I have been thinking about the debut album a lot and I’m finally in a place where I know what I want to do and how I want to portray it.
I’m guessing SEWERSTAR has been in the can for a while now? Cos I know, thanks to COVID, that industry delays have fucked things over for ages.
Yeah, behind the scenes, SEWERSTAR has been worked on for a long time. Aside from “Deliverance,” which I did with ST£FAN [Abington, former Midnight Beast frontman] at his home studio, and “I Spit on Your Grave” which was done at various studios, it’s all been done at home in my bedroom. It feels like a long time coming, but I am really excited about it.
And you get to finally take it on tour in October.
Yeah, should be fun seeing the reaction to it from people.
Before that, you toured with Peaches on her Teaches With Peaches anniversary tour.
That was INSANE! When I got the email, “do you wanna open for Peaches on these dates?” I was all “are you fucking joking me?!” She is Mother, a sweetheart, a true artist. Her shows are grand theatre. It was so inspiring and such an honour opening for an artist as iconic as that. And she had a lot of other sick queer opening acts too, which was really cool to be among.
And then last week [19th August] there was the Leadmill show with Jeremy Corbyn…
What the fuck?! It was so random! I did not have a Jeremy Corbyn/UGLYPOP collaboration on my 2023 bingo card!
Where did that come from?
His Peace & Justice project DM’d me on Instagram like “hey, we’re reaching out! Wanna do something?” I told them to email my management, but I wasn’t expecting anything; I didn’t even know what they wanted to do. Then, a month later, I went for a meeting with my publicist where they said “so this Jeremy Corbyn collaboration” and I was like “what?!”
At first it was meant to be an interview – it still is gonna be an interview, but that’s just happening later. Then it came through to be a collaboration show with the Music for the Many trust, helping provide instrumental tuition and such to young people. It was really random but really cool. When I met him, he was funny, an icon, and passionate about everything he speaks on rather than a bullshitter. One of the last politicians in this country who has a beating heart.
Yeah, I had a genuine blue-screen freeze four years ago when those election results came in and a-
“What the fuck is wrong with everyone?”
What we could’ve had.
It saddens me to think.
But then again, maybe he would’ve been too busy fixing the country to take objectively hilarious photos with you!
I was like “let’s take SPY photos! Hip hop photos!” He was down for it all.
What’s the secret to a good scream? Cos my scream has always been terrible.
I dunno, I’m winging it half the time. A lot of what I do is singing with grit, which is activating the vibrato of your larynx. I did a little bit of an online course, but you still have to practice a lot. YouTube tutorials help. If I find myself asking, “how do I do a false chord scream?” there’s shit on there about that. I can’t really do fries. But a lot of it is basic warming up properly and trying not to fuck your vocal cords.
Whenever I’ve tried to scream emotionally my voice just gives up halfway through and becomes like a baby coo!
That happened a lot to me initially, too. But, so long as it doesn’t hurt, it’s just about patience with yourself and exercising it like a muscle.
What are you currently listening to?
I’ve been obsessed with this brother duo called Brevin Kim. They do a lot of genre-fucky stuff too and I’ve not heard a bad song from them. It’s amazing how underrated people can be and how they should be more well-known. Listening to a lot of Nicole Dollanganger. Ethel Cain, OBVIOUSLY; I saw her live the other day and it was one of the most spiritual experiences of my life.
Was this at the boygenius super-show?
Yeah!
I was there!
I just went for Ethel and MUNA. As soon as “A House in Nebraska” came on, I just started crying!
The first time I heard that album last year, I was just floored.
Same! I’d been a fan of hers for as few years cos my friend Aaron [Puckett, known as Lil’ Aaron] writes with her, they did the song “Michelle Pfieffer” together and I was like “that’s fucking insane!” Then I listened to the Inbred EP and Preacher’s Daughter on a train ride to Liverpool and was like *puts hands up* that’s it! That’s it!
My first listen was at night and you know when you hear a record for the first time and think “things are different now?”
Yeah, it was exactly like that! I’ve listened to it a lot, but that first full listen, I just knew was a “this is never gonna happen again” experience. One of those albums you wish you could hear for the first time again.
I remember the first time I heard “Thoroughfare” and it gutted me so much…
Oh my God, SAME!
But then you listen back to it and it’s even more heartbreaking!
When you know the entire concept of the album! The first time you hear “Thoroughfare” you think, “oh, so cute!” But on another listen and remember that [SPOILER REDACTED, go listen to Preacher’s Daughter] and “do you wanna see the West with me!” *mock cries* SO GOOD!
I was so shocked that it worked so well in a daytime festival setting.
And you could hear a pin drop! Everyone was silent! It was an amazing night!
SEWERSTAR is streaming from 7th September via ZAND. They will embark on a headline tour in October, which you can buy tickets for here.
